is terra nova an emerging church?
Recently I was asked to help a friend and student out with a project for school. The project centered on studying "The Emerging Church", and involved interviewing a pastor from such a church. While I really don't feel comfortable defining Terra Nova in that way, we probably do share a fare amount in common with such churches, so I answered the questions anyway. In an effort to get some mileage out of the time spent, I post the work here for your reading and commenting pleasure. Let's get a good rousing argument going in the comment section. I think that would be fun. Please limit cursing to four per comment:) For those unaware of what the emerging church is--just google it and sit down for a few hours/days/months.
Here is the email from Kevin.
From Kevin K.::
How are you guys doing? Hopefully all is going well. I have a huge favor to ask of you guys. For one of my classes we are reading Donald Millers book: Searching for God Knows What. It's been a very good book to read especially in the setting which we are reading it in. We read a chapter or two a week then discuss it in a small group. It's been good, but we needed to do a project, and one of them was to interview a pastor of an emerging church. So I was wondering if one of you guys, or both of you could answer some of my questions.
1. How does cultural relevance fit into the calling of the church? This is what it means for the church to live the incarnation of Christ. God incarnated himself through Jesus Christ to a particular culture in a particular time. One could argue that he did the same through Isreal as well. Our calling is to live out the incarnation for today, and to continually reevaluate our cultural relevance. This is not bowing to culture or worshiping the God of Cultural Relevance as some will critique us--this is simply looking around and saying "Who are we trying to reach--and what will it take to reach them, while still maintaining our commitment to being the church (see next question)." For some reason, this concept is never challenged when a missionary goes to Africa or some other foreign (read--non westernized) country, we expect it in fact. Yet, this will be attacked vigorously in America as caving in, or capitulating. This is why the conservative side of the emerging movement is driven by missional theology as it was so well unpacked by the likes of Leslie Newbigin and more recently by Mark Driscoll in "Radical Reformission".
2. Where does theology fit in the life of the church? It drives it. It's what we stand on. And yet, ask me to define what bits of theology I hold in a closed hand (not open to discussion) and I won't go much further than things like the Apostle's Creed, the Creed of Nicea, and the Chalcedonian Definition.
3. Where does tradition fit in the life of the church? This depends on how you define tradition. We would say we are very traditional, but in an ancient sort of way. In a pre-modern/pre enlightenment sort of way. We are attempting to be less stained by philosophical modernism and the way that it has ruined so many churches, and forced people into a box. We call this "Ancient Upgrade" in that we are thoroughly historical while being fully missional (culturally sensitive).
4. Is the ermerging church the way or a way of doing church in the 21st century? Only a way. Nothing is ever the way. But everyone defines the emerging church differently. I think there are two divergent strains of the emergent church. One takes on sort of a "what is truth anyway" kind of tone and could easily become the new liberalism, the other is is entirely conservative in it's approach to truth and theology, while being completely open to trying whatever it takes to introduce people to Jesus. We are the latter without a doubt.
5. How would you respond to this article?http://www.emergingchurch.info/stories/nudes/index.htm
Personally, I love being naked. I think all guys do. Whenever possible I invite my wife to join me in that. And while my kids (3 and 1) inevitably run away naked squealing gleefully when we are trying to get them into their jammies and ready for bed, or dry them off from a bath--the nakedness pretty much stops there for me and my household. So, no, I'm not up for nudist evangelism. That said, I'm not up for the 1950's "no mixed bathing" silliness. For those unaccustomed to the fundamentalist Christian subculture--mixed bathing refers to men and women swimming in the same pool or lake together. This apparently was a highly dangerous activity, and therefore seriously frowned upon. (read with sarcasm).
5. How would you define the emerging church? As I said earlier, I don't think there really is one definition. See above.
6. What have you found to be the difficulties for "emerging churches"? Peoples perception of what that means. Someone reads this article mentioned above about nudes and assumes that we are all into that sort of thing--and we're not. Recently, our worship pastor was talking to somebody about an upcoming men's retreat and mentioned that some of the guys like to sit around and smoke a pipe. This guy actually thought he was referring to marijuana. He actually asked "you mean marijuana?" The fact that he actually thought that was a possibility says something about the misconceptions people have about us. It goes on the other side to. People assume that because we meet in a bar and the pastors all wear jeans that we don't really care about morality and things like that. The reality is that we are extremely conservative on these sorts of issues but we do love people where they are, and judgment is not our first course of action which differentiates from churches like the one I heard about recently that asked someone to leave because they smelled like patchouli.
7. What weaknesses are there? See above.
9. Why did you choose to be a Pastor in an emerging church? I want to be very clear that we are not an emerging church, though we probably look like one to many people informed on such issues. We are a missional church. I choose to be a pastor in a missional church because most churches get stuck in the decade in which they were begun and I don't want that to happen to us.
10. How does missions fit in to the emerging church, is it any different? See above. In addition, our missions strategy is church planting.
11. What type of emphasis does the emerging church place on community? Next to theology, I would say it is our second greatest driving force. I would say that we ascribe to a missional theology that requires authentic community to function effectively.
12. Postmodern is a term which can mean many different things depending on who you ask. What is your definition and how does that relate to the emerging church? I don't have time to answer this question well, but I'll say this. Post modern is really nothing more that either ultra modern, or pre-modern and the line of definition on that is a very fine one. I think post-modernism may be the great philosophical hoax of our day. That said, people's understanding of post-modernism impact on society and culture is very real. Personally I am more comfortable describing myself as pre-modern.
13. Do you plan to partner with other churches, in the world, in the U.S.A. and then in the greater Albany area including non-emergent churches? If so, why, and how? Again, we are not comfortable calling ourselves an emergent church--but yes, we are already partnering with other churches across the globe. This began before our first public worship service even took place. We strategically trade power for influence and this drives our interaction with other churches in god's kingdom.
14. Explain the emergent churches view on music in relation to worship. If the emergent church does not have an overall view or idea, what is your personal idea of worship and music? See our philosophy of worship on the worship arts section of our website.
15. What makes an emergent church different than other churches? Ask an emergent church. Mostly, it's the amount of product found in our hair.
16. Any other ideas or thoughts that you think are important? I'm going to be blunt here, it is just like the institutional academy to be leading from the rear view mirror and talking about something that is already passé such as the emerging church. I understand that to many people, we probably fit the bill as an emerging church, but at the same time, I know that no one really wants to claim that title any more. We hate that label. And yet, I am much more comfortable talking about the missional church. Your proffesor should stay ahead of the curve and have you write a paper about this instead.
And that's it--let the fight begin.
Here is the email from Kevin.
From Kevin K.::
How are you guys doing? Hopefully all is going well. I have a huge favor to ask of you guys. For one of my classes we are reading Donald Millers book: Searching for God Knows What. It's been a very good book to read especially in the setting which we are reading it in. We read a chapter or two a week then discuss it in a small group. It's been good, but we needed to do a project, and one of them was to interview a pastor of an emerging church. So I was wondering if one of you guys, or both of you could answer some of my questions.
1. How does cultural relevance fit into the calling of the church? This is what it means for the church to live the incarnation of Christ. God incarnated himself through Jesus Christ to a particular culture in a particular time. One could argue that he did the same through Isreal as well. Our calling is to live out the incarnation for today, and to continually reevaluate our cultural relevance. This is not bowing to culture or worshiping the God of Cultural Relevance as some will critique us--this is simply looking around and saying "Who are we trying to reach--and what will it take to reach them, while still maintaining our commitment to being the church (see next question)." For some reason, this concept is never challenged when a missionary goes to Africa or some other foreign (read--non westernized) country, we expect it in fact. Yet, this will be attacked vigorously in America as caving in, or capitulating. This is why the conservative side of the emerging movement is driven by missional theology as it was so well unpacked by the likes of Leslie Newbigin and more recently by Mark Driscoll in "Radical Reformission".
2. Where does theology fit in the life of the church? It drives it. It's what we stand on. And yet, ask me to define what bits of theology I hold in a closed hand (not open to discussion) and I won't go much further than things like the Apostle's Creed, the Creed of Nicea, and the Chalcedonian Definition.
3. Where does tradition fit in the life of the church? This depends on how you define tradition. We would say we are very traditional, but in an ancient sort of way. In a pre-modern/pre enlightenment sort of way. We are attempting to be less stained by philosophical modernism and the way that it has ruined so many churches, and forced people into a box. We call this "Ancient Upgrade" in that we are thoroughly historical while being fully missional (culturally sensitive).
4. Is the ermerging church the way or a way of doing church in the 21st century? Only a way. Nothing is ever the way. But everyone defines the emerging church differently. I think there are two divergent strains of the emergent church. One takes on sort of a "what is truth anyway" kind of tone and could easily become the new liberalism, the other is is entirely conservative in it's approach to truth and theology, while being completely open to trying whatever it takes to introduce people to Jesus. We are the latter without a doubt.
5. How would you respond to this article?http://www.emergingchurch.info/stories/nudes/index.htm
Personally, I love being naked. I think all guys do. Whenever possible I invite my wife to join me in that. And while my kids (3 and 1) inevitably run away naked squealing gleefully when we are trying to get them into their jammies and ready for bed, or dry them off from a bath--the nakedness pretty much stops there for me and my household. So, no, I'm not up for nudist evangelism. That said, I'm not up for the 1950's "no mixed bathing" silliness. For those unaccustomed to the fundamentalist Christian subculture--mixed bathing refers to men and women swimming in the same pool or lake together. This apparently was a highly dangerous activity, and therefore seriously frowned upon. (read with sarcasm).
5. How would you define the emerging church? As I said earlier, I don't think there really is one definition. See above.
6. What have you found to be the difficulties for "emerging churches"? Peoples perception of what that means. Someone reads this article mentioned above about nudes and assumes that we are all into that sort of thing--and we're not. Recently, our worship pastor was talking to somebody about an upcoming men's retreat and mentioned that some of the guys like to sit around and smoke a pipe. This guy actually thought he was referring to marijuana. He actually asked "you mean marijuana?" The fact that he actually thought that was a possibility says something about the misconceptions people have about us. It goes on the other side to. People assume that because we meet in a bar and the pastors all wear jeans that we don't really care about morality and things like that. The reality is that we are extremely conservative on these sorts of issues but we do love people where they are, and judgment is not our first course of action which differentiates from churches like the one I heard about recently that asked someone to leave because they smelled like patchouli.
7. What weaknesses are there? See above.
9. Why did you choose to be a Pastor in an emerging church? I want to be very clear that we are not an emerging church, though we probably look like one to many people informed on such issues. We are a missional church. I choose to be a pastor in a missional church because most churches get stuck in the decade in which they were begun and I don't want that to happen to us.
10. How does missions fit in to the emerging church, is it any different? See above. In addition, our missions strategy is church planting.
11. What type of emphasis does the emerging church place on community? Next to theology, I would say it is our second greatest driving force. I would say that we ascribe to a missional theology that requires authentic community to function effectively.
12. Postmodern is a term which can mean many different things depending on who you ask. What is your definition and how does that relate to the emerging church? I don't have time to answer this question well, but I'll say this. Post modern is really nothing more that either ultra modern, or pre-modern and the line of definition on that is a very fine one. I think post-modernism may be the great philosophical hoax of our day. That said, people's understanding of post-modernism impact on society and culture is very real. Personally I am more comfortable describing myself as pre-modern.
13. Do you plan to partner with other churches, in the world, in the U.S.A. and then in the greater Albany area including non-emergent churches? If so, why, and how? Again, we are not comfortable calling ourselves an emergent church--but yes, we are already partnering with other churches across the globe. This began before our first public worship service even took place. We strategically trade power for influence and this drives our interaction with other churches in god's kingdom.
14. Explain the emergent churches view on music in relation to worship. If the emergent church does not have an overall view or idea, what is your personal idea of worship and music? See our philosophy of worship on the worship arts section of our website.
15. What makes an emergent church different than other churches? Ask an emergent church. Mostly, it's the amount of product found in our hair.
16. Any other ideas or thoughts that you think are important? I'm going to be blunt here, it is just like the institutional academy to be leading from the rear view mirror and talking about something that is already passé such as the emerging church. I understand that to many people, we probably fit the bill as an emerging church, but at the same time, I know that no one really wants to claim that title any more. We hate that label. And yet, I am much more comfortable talking about the missional church. Your proffesor should stay ahead of the curve and have you write a paper about this instead.
And that's it--let the fight begin.
posted by Phil Taylor at 11:42 AM
4 comments
