Worship and Prayer
Recently, a friend of mine from college reconnected via email after running into a mutual friend of ours. After the normal "how is your life, tell me about your kids, etc. etc." kind of stuff. But soon, the conversation turned more serious and questions about the nature of worship took precedence. It's like when you run into a mechanic friend, you've always got questions about some random thing your car is doing--I get that as a pastor with regard to spiritual and biblical matters. It occurred to me after responding to these questions that the answers may be of some help to those in the Terra Nova community. So here it is. Names have been starred.
Phil, Here is the question I have for you~ are there any references to public prayer in the Bible, as a positive thing? Even when it refers to Jesus blessing the loaves and fishes it doesn't specifically say he did it over a loud speaker (if you know what I mean). ***** believes that it is a very private thing and tends to think that people do it more like the pharasee. I understand that ***** can't see into their hearts but ***** sincerely questions the traditions of public prayer.
Another question:~ worship, why are Sunday church services (this person attends church in another state) more like a Bible study? There are the traditional songs sung before and after the sermon. One Pastor said that knowing, learning about the Bible is worship? You opinions will be very interesting. These things used to be a source of great contention between ***** and I but more and more I see the validity in the questions. ***** thinks beyond the traditions and that is something we haven't ever found anyone to banter about because so many are okay with the familiar traditions.
So what do you think?
My response is lengthy and follows now::
You are opening a whole can here. This is such a huge issue. My guess is that what ***** is reacting to is people who have abused worship. In general, I think we need to see all of life as an act of worship. going to work is worship, changing diapers is worship, singing, praying, giving, learning, loving, sex (between a husband and wife) is all worship in some sense. this is based on the fact that every aspect of our life should be lived for God's glory, in that sense, we are as christians, by definition, worshipers. in the old testament, you see this again and again where the people of Israel are described as worshipers of the one true God, they were defined by who they worshiped. we see prophetic words in the Old Testament telling us that while in that day, formal worship (officially) happened in a temple, or on a mountain that held sacred meaning---that one day we would worship God in spirit and in truth. we live in that day now, though because we are still tainted by sin, we worship poorly most of the time. we don't treat every aspect of our lives as worship, but that is the goal, the ideal.
I think the work that our worship arts pastor, scott womer, has done on this is really good. Here's the link for it. http://www.terranovachurch.org/worshiparts.html This is basically a statement of what Terra Nova church believes about worship, and I agree with it wholeheartedly.
I started answering your question by going to the big picture of seeing all of life as worship because in many ways this trumps the other questions and renders them moot. Now, let me go to another big picture issue that I see as influencing your questions. You have to deal with the importance of the church gathered. This could be a worship service where hundreds or thousands are worshiping together, or a small group of people sitting around a living room. This is the church gathered. When Christ called you to himself, he also called you to the church. The Christian life cannot be lived outside of the context of community. The idea of the individual worshiper who never worships in community is antithetical the whole thrust of the new testament, and really the entire bible.
All of scripture could be seen through two lenses. In the Old Testament, it's all about being rightly related to the nation of Israel (God's people in that day). In the New Testament, it's all about being rightly related to the church (God's people in this day). So, I say all of that to say that as Christians, we must live our lives with other Christians in an intimate way where other followers of Christ can speak into our lives- truth, and encouragement and rebuke and love and all of that good stuff that we need.
To bring it to your questions, we are called to be worshipers who must worship in community. This is a core truth for me that guides and informs everything I do as a pastor and as a Christian.
One more big issue on worship in general. Keeping in mind what I said above, we shouldn't be too quick to define exactly how worship looks either privately or corporately (by yourself or with the church). For example, scripture never says that you can worship by painting a picture, or paddling a kayak. But for me, the second one is very true. Many people feel very connected to God while in nature. They worship God well there, by themselves or with others. We can't find a verse and chapter for every picture of worship, but that does not mean this type of worship is invalidated.
So, in asking what type of prayer is appropriate worship (private or public)---knowing that all of life is worship, and we must do life in the context of Christian community, and that worship can look very different for different people in different times in different cultures, it should become really clear that both private and public worship are appropriate when not abused. (anything can be abused).
Personally, I can't imagine really engaging in true community with other followers of Christ and never praying with them? I can't imagine telling people at a worship service not to shout out to God. Even the songs we sing become words of prayer in a way. I can't imagine telling the pastor not to pray before teaching God's word and asking God to humble our hearts and use that time.
Your other question was "why are Sunday services more like a bible study". For 2000 years, church worship has by and large looked the same. Singing (most of the time), prayer, scripture reading and explaining, and communion (Eucharist, lord's table, you pick the name for it). In different times throughout history, one or more of these aspects of public worship has been emphasized more than others. In recent years (meaning a couple hundred years), due to the enlightenment and the reign of philosophical modernism and it's emphasis on rational thought, the church has attempted to explain everything in scripture with scientific precision, which has made the scripture aspect of church more teaching and less preaching. Meaning that it has often felt like an academic bible study, and not a time where God speaks to you and challenges you, and pushes you, and encourages you. This is a sad development that is thankfully beginning to change all over the country as we raid the good points to be learned from post modernism while leaving the behind the extra. Really, we are becoming pre-modern in our approach to worship, and that's a good thing and I think very balanced.
I don't believe that church should only feel like a bible study. I'm sorry that yours does. I think it should touch the mystical and eternal aspects of God, while challenging us to think more deeply about who God is. I see this happening through all aspects of how God has created us. It happens through scripture, through prayer, through singing, through art in all forms, through community, as we engage each other. It's a multi-faceted thing that isn't always easy to pin down or identify, and to some extant, it involves preferences for worship styles, teaching styles, etc. But one thing I'm sure of is that church should not feel like a glorified bible study in an academic sense only. Worship takes many forms.
So, you and ***** can talk about all that, and get back to me with further questions. Focus on the big picture.
phil taylor
To the Terra Nova Community--and anyone else reading the blogs::I'd love to see a good discussion on this emerge in the comment feature of the blogs.
Phil, Here is the question I have for you~ are there any references to public prayer in the Bible, as a positive thing? Even when it refers to Jesus blessing the loaves and fishes it doesn't specifically say he did it over a loud speaker (if you know what I mean). ***** believes that it is a very private thing and tends to think that people do it more like the pharasee. I understand that ***** can't see into their hearts but ***** sincerely questions the traditions of public prayer.
Another question:~ worship, why are Sunday church services (this person attends church in another state) more like a Bible study? There are the traditional songs sung before and after the sermon. One Pastor said that knowing, learning about the Bible is worship? You opinions will be very interesting. These things used to be a source of great contention between ***** and I but more and more I see the validity in the questions. ***** thinks beyond the traditions and that is something we haven't ever found anyone to banter about because so many are okay with the familiar traditions.
So what do you think?
My response is lengthy and follows now::
You are opening a whole can here. This is such a huge issue. My guess is that what ***** is reacting to is people who have abused worship. In general, I think we need to see all of life as an act of worship. going to work is worship, changing diapers is worship, singing, praying, giving, learning, loving, sex (between a husband and wife) is all worship in some sense. this is based on the fact that every aspect of our life should be lived for God's glory, in that sense, we are as christians, by definition, worshipers. in the old testament, you see this again and again where the people of Israel are described as worshipers of the one true God, they were defined by who they worshiped. we see prophetic words in the Old Testament telling us that while in that day, formal worship (officially) happened in a temple, or on a mountain that held sacred meaning---that one day we would worship God in spirit and in truth. we live in that day now, though because we are still tainted by sin, we worship poorly most of the time. we don't treat every aspect of our lives as worship, but that is the goal, the ideal.
I think the work that our worship arts pastor, scott womer, has done on this is really good. Here's the link for it. http://www.terranovachurch.org/worshiparts.html This is basically a statement of what Terra Nova church believes about worship, and I agree with it wholeheartedly.
I started answering your question by going to the big picture of seeing all of life as worship because in many ways this trumps the other questions and renders them moot. Now, let me go to another big picture issue that I see as influencing your questions. You have to deal with the importance of the church gathered. This could be a worship service where hundreds or thousands are worshiping together, or a small group of people sitting around a living room. This is the church gathered. When Christ called you to himself, he also called you to the church. The Christian life cannot be lived outside of the context of community. The idea of the individual worshiper who never worships in community is antithetical the whole thrust of the new testament, and really the entire bible.
All of scripture could be seen through two lenses. In the Old Testament, it's all about being rightly related to the nation of Israel (God's people in that day). In the New Testament, it's all about being rightly related to the church (God's people in this day). So, I say all of that to say that as Christians, we must live our lives with other Christians in an intimate way where other followers of Christ can speak into our lives- truth, and encouragement and rebuke and love and all of that good stuff that we need.
To bring it to your questions, we are called to be worshipers who must worship in community. This is a core truth for me that guides and informs everything I do as a pastor and as a Christian.
One more big issue on worship in general. Keeping in mind what I said above, we shouldn't be too quick to define exactly how worship looks either privately or corporately (by yourself or with the church). For example, scripture never says that you can worship by painting a picture, or paddling a kayak. But for me, the second one is very true. Many people feel very connected to God while in nature. They worship God well there, by themselves or with others. We can't find a verse and chapter for every picture of worship, but that does not mean this type of worship is invalidated.
So, in asking what type of prayer is appropriate worship (private or public)---knowing that all of life is worship, and we must do life in the context of Christian community, and that worship can look very different for different people in different times in different cultures, it should become really clear that both private and public worship are appropriate when not abused. (anything can be abused).
Personally, I can't imagine really engaging in true community with other followers of Christ and never praying with them? I can't imagine telling people at a worship service not to shout out to God. Even the songs we sing become words of prayer in a way. I can't imagine telling the pastor not to pray before teaching God's word and asking God to humble our hearts and use that time.
Your other question was "why are Sunday services more like a bible study". For 2000 years, church worship has by and large looked the same. Singing (most of the time), prayer, scripture reading and explaining, and communion (Eucharist, lord's table, you pick the name for it). In different times throughout history, one or more of these aspects of public worship has been emphasized more than others. In recent years (meaning a couple hundred years), due to the enlightenment and the reign of philosophical modernism and it's emphasis on rational thought, the church has attempted to explain everything in scripture with scientific precision, which has made the scripture aspect of church more teaching and less preaching. Meaning that it has often felt like an academic bible study, and not a time where God speaks to you and challenges you, and pushes you, and encourages you. This is a sad development that is thankfully beginning to change all over the country as we raid the good points to be learned from post modernism while leaving the behind the extra. Really, we are becoming pre-modern in our approach to worship, and that's a good thing and I think very balanced.
I don't believe that church should only feel like a bible study. I'm sorry that yours does. I think it should touch the mystical and eternal aspects of God, while challenging us to think more deeply about who God is. I see this happening through all aspects of how God has created us. It happens through scripture, through prayer, through singing, through art in all forms, through community, as we engage each other. It's a multi-faceted thing that isn't always easy to pin down or identify, and to some extant, it involves preferences for worship styles, teaching styles, etc. But one thing I'm sure of is that church should not feel like a glorified bible study in an academic sense only. Worship takes many forms.
So, you and ***** can talk about all that, and get back to me with further questions. Focus on the big picture.
phil taylor
To the Terra Nova Community--and anyone else reading the blogs::I'd love to see a good discussion on this emerge in the comment feature of the blogs.
posted by Phil Taylor at 8:24 AM
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